Posts by The Marvster

14

The Watchtower says: The Septuagint became God's Word

by opusdei1972 in

the last edition of the watchtower (study edition) says the following:.

alexander the great later conquered much of the ancient world, and common, or koine, greek became an international language.

so, in this verse the septuagint was not god's word according to matthew.

The Marvster

Opusdei1972....

Here's the problem I have with this sort of thing... While being in the org I was given the impression that the 'truth' as found in the bible was correct, the bible was actually infallible and any inconsistencies could be explained away, it was god's word and there was no reason to doubt anything in it... and that's what made JW's know they had the 'truth'.. THE PROBLEM?.... I, and many other people, sacrificed big portions of a life, with the guarantee that the sacrifices we made would be rewarded at some future time, as promised in the infallible word of god.... and now as DATA-DOG pointed out:

Saying that human imperfection, via translation, became part of the inspired word of God is equal to saying the bible is not infallible.

more and more of this stuff is coming out of the woodwork and I tell you what, the anger I feel learning these things is 'all consuming', they lied to us, over and over and over and over again... but thanks for posting this, it just reinforces the hunch I had that leaving the 'truth' was the absolutely right thing to do.... Just wish I had awoken earlier..

2

Child Sex Abuse in The Jesus people cult

by LisaRose in

jw
friends

interesting article about a small religious cult in chicago.

a man who grew up in the cult and suffered abuse set about to make a documentary about the religion.

he didn't set out to make it about sex abuse, but in interviewing people he found out a lot of people had been molested as well.

The Marvster

Just happened to read one line ..

“Guys would stand up and confess to masturbation, or a visit to the porn shop,” says Chris Harold, a former member who joined the commune in 1986. “It was so humiliating. You would just sit there and think, I never want to have to do that.”

This was my number one terror - getting caught at this....

anyway, no wonder the watchtower didn't want JW's investigating anything outside... with information like this, I'm starting to learn that the life we were living as JW's was not a unique one.. there was a particular format to a cult, claiming to be the happiest people, only us having the truth, the end of the world soon, and lots of other minor details, I thought we were right because our way of life was 'different' but it turns out it wasn't so different at all, we just weren't allowed to know what was going on in the real world, but i bet the GB knew..

thanks for posting LisaRose

....

11

Cognitive Dissonance Runs Deep

by vinman in

while it is true that maybe 1 or 2 things woke you up (like myself), it is interesting to reflect on the reality of what you did not believe, even if you were a true believer and would of died for the organization.

here is my list (not a complete list, i'm sure their is more).

what is your list like?.

The Marvster

Ones I struggled with (similar to lots already said):

Michael the Archangel = Jesus

Resurrected can't remarry - a person being resurrected and having to watch her kids with ex husband happy with a new woman FOR ETERNITY - that's a bit cruel.

The Little Flock being The 144,000 and the 'Other Sheep' being the non-anointed great crowd- I had real difficulty with this, It seemed more rational to me that the little flock Jesus spoke of were his Israelite/Jewish brothers who converted to Christianity and the 'other sheep' was people of all other nations that became his followers, starting from Pentecost of 33CE..

Revelation book - they tried to make every single detail in John's vision fit every single detail they could find in 20th Century history, with no possible way to verify 'any of it'

I never had the guts to speak those doubts;

39

Let’s Speculate!!!

by John Aquila in

you know the organization is slowly going down.

not as fast as we would wish, but nevertheless it is crumbling.

five (5) year old child baptisms, smaller magazines, child sexual abuse exposed, smaller annual growth, no one wants to reach out, young ones leaving.

The Marvster

John Aquila... yep, me being a bit slow, and not knowing anything about the borg for the last 3 years since being DF'd, and then hearing about all the 'new light' stuff, which seemed to be an attempt to bury watchtower's historical gaffs, and then learning that the website is now called JW.org instead of Watchtower.org, I immediately smelled a rat and just having a hunch I wondered if that's what they were trying to do, slowly minimise the term 'watchtower' and distance themselves from it.

8

Emptiness of Watchtower

by vinman in

since i left the organization, i have learned so many new and deep things.

i know some in the watchtower are intelligent, however it has been my experience, that most i've dealt with are.

.. well quite inept.

The Marvster

INEPT is the word; I remember when I used to be sat between my brother and my uncle (not JW's) about 7 years ago, when they discussed either politics, issues going on around the world, history, science, injustic, the economy etc etc.. I was always totally dumbstruck, with absolutely NOTHING to contribute, they would have to stop and explain 'basic' things to me... in fact i felt so inept that I started to collect some books and do some reading up on history etc... so several months later, after learning just a little bit, I was able to hold my own a just a little bit with my bro and uncle, and some of the rare critical thinking JW's... while having these stimulating conversations, I could see other brothers with that 'deer in headlights' look on their faces,

As for the socially inept, god almighty, that's a big one, I used to think I was pretty good socially, now I've been watching non JW's for a couple of years, inept doesn't even begin to describe what I am, I am literally like a little baby again...

39

Let’s Speculate!!!

by John Aquila in

you know the organization is slowly going down.

not as fast as we would wish, but nevertheless it is crumbling.

five (5) year old child baptisms, smaller magazines, child sexual abuse exposed, smaller annual growth, no one wants to reach out, young ones leaving.

The Marvster

Watchtower Bible and Tract Society WILL be dropped... I believe they'll eventually have to distance themselves from the 'WATCHTOWER', they already started by substituting JW.org...

talking of 1914, right now I'm watching one of JwFairytales' latest YT videos, Jehovah Bear and another character are in some future time talking with an elder who they tell that the 1914 prophecy is now actually 2014 for the beginning of Christ's reign; because the watchtower forgot to 'carry the 1' like they did when coming up with the fudged date of 607 but started with 606 and forgot about the year 0 not existing so carried the 1 to make it 607 (or something like that) so 1914 becomes 2014... I wonder if JwFairytales' prophecy will come true?

23

Baby steps taken with a grain of salt

by Israel Ricky Gonzales in

seeing how my jw wife nearly lost it when i woke up to ttatt and was df'd just over a year ago, she has been showing cracks in her armor.. 1. she has stopped pioneering to resume her good-paying career, working full-time.. 2. she suggested marriage counseling.. 3. she suggested going to a latin rap concert at a casino for our anniversary.. 4. when we reconciled recently and began living together as a family again, she agreed to alternate weeks of jw activity with the kids, one week doing the jw thing with her and the next week not doing the jw thing with me .

5. she hasn't had perfect attendance at meetings or for field service since she started working full-time.

just last night, she skipped meeting to help co-workers prepare food for an employee appreciation luncheon held today.

The Marvster

Without trying to sound too 'excited', I'm literally forcing back a big beaming smile about this 'development ... it 'almost' sounds like she's trying to 'take her life back'....

I think your thread title was very appropriate... my hopes are with you man...

8

Is this the wisest way? - there is no truth!

by fulltimestudent in

jw
friends

The Marvster

Thanks for posting fulltimestudent;

Mr Wilson sounded like he was saying that he has no belief in any strict philosphy, not taking the either/or route i.e. Repulican vs Democrat - Islam vs Christianity - Theism vs Atheism -

I've noticed there can be the assumption sometimes that if you aren't for one side then you MUST be for the other

don't have a religion? then 'you don't believe in god'

a personal one is, people look at me, a single guy 43 years old with no children and not in a relationship, then, 'He must be gay' I've had the hints so often and people have asked me outright ... this world always seems split in two exact halves, and to imply you are not in either camp seems to make people think you're unnatural...

I don't know why we do this, I guess I did it since I was little, Maybe it's learned behaviour... but all I know is that when you step into 'no man's land' it can cause discomfort in certain people, AND and can definitely be confusing for the person in no man's land...

are we meant to live in 'certainty'? I don't know, quite a while after leaving the JW's I realised that, for me, it is okay to live in doubt, it's okay to not know... JW's made us belive that we can eventually know the answer to everything if we just wait, and that we had pretty much most of the answers already; wasn't that why it was called 'the TRUTH? ... of course some days I don't know WTF I'm doing and it shows on my 'confused' face....

@ James Thomas - you'll end up frightening people with that ultimate truth talk... Will 'PM' you about you message

33

Thought I was stronger!

by Peony in

just come home from a weight loss class early.

it's 6 months since i da'd and two and a half years since i've been to a meeting.

there was a witness there (unless she has left, i wouldn't know) we made eye contact!

The Marvster

Peony, thanks for sharing...

It's okay to get emotional, it's okay to feel those emotions... as JW's we are taught so much to suppress emotions, if someone abuses you physically, emotionally or otherwise, 'wait on Jehovah', brothers treating you badly? 'wait on Jehovah', in deep depression? 'wait until the new system' be patient, it was so bloody hard to really express who you are deep inside.... and now you are out? emotional outbursts, this just proves you are 'human' again and are in touch with your feelings, NEVER FORGET, the damage from this org can run very deep, and I guess you know how much the JW way of life hurts people, so it's no surprise that when you bump into someone who represents the very thing that causes you so much hurt, you might react badly to it, I think it's a natural reaction. You are in a much better place because the difference between that 'witness' and yourself is that she is simply obeying 'orders' to reject another human being without questioning the ethics of that behaviour, there is no personal conscience there, just a GB injected mindset, but you are living from your heart and how you feel, hence your reaction (not cold, inhuman or harsh).... after all those years of repressing natural reactions while 'waiting on Jehovah', something's got to eventually pop...

A year after being DF'd (I never returned to the meetings), I was on a train here in the UK, and an elder from the congregation got on and accidentally sat right opposite me before he had the chance to notice I was there. I said 'hello' thinking elders could still talk to me, hoping he would at least ask if I was ok, but he just gave me a cold long stare and didn't say anything, we were sat face to face just a few feet between us... I was totally 'stunned', and didn't know where to put my face, and then when I got off the train I was really upset. It happened again when 'I' accidentally sat opposite a witness couple from the congregation, again, just a couple of feet away, they stopped talking and put on stoney zombie-like faces, again I was totally stunned how they can just shut down so cold like that... yep, it hurt.. I guess that's the whole purpose of the shunning to 'keep' the power over you.... that power will eventually fade as you gain more self confidence...!

41

What were you favorite book in the organization? I know what you're thinking...LOL!

by BashfulAshG in

what were *your favorite *books in the organization?.

out of all of those books, i liked "mankind's search for god.

" however, it appears to me that this book is incredibly obscure and no one recalls studying it during the old book study format.

The Marvster

1. Revelation Grand Climax: AWESOME pictures...

2. The Greatest Man Who ever Lived: more AWESOME pictures, loved the pictures of Jesus, made me wanna hug the guy a thousand times.

3. all time favourite for the group study was 'Is There a Creator Who Cares about You?', loved all the information about mind boggling distances between stars and galaxies and incomprehensible facts about the universe... basically anything mind boggling and incomprehensible gets me totally excited...

(it was very upsetting to learn that the org was 'quote mining', 'misquoting' scientists and 'cherry picking' parts of scientific findings to prove the 'truth' about creation? )